Rebirthing/Hypnosis

[joelayinperson]

Usually I am Joethelayperson but I am utilising the works' computer for a minute here:

Has anybody any experience of Rebirthing or Holotropic Breathwork (Leonard Orr/Stanisalv Grof)?


and how does it compare to the affects and effectiveness of Hypnosis (deep trance)?

I was interested in pursuing this type of work but a doctor in work put me off it somewhat by telling me that in his opinion, the breathwork might be harmful to the nervous system


Apparantly, if we breathe faster than necesssary or more deeply than our aerobic exercise needs, we actually lower the concentration of CO2 in the blood, this in effect makes the body take up less of the available oxygen as the body and brain thinks it is no longer necessary with the lowered carbon dioxide levels

as a result the brain has reduced oxygen levels and the blood vessels that supply it are constricted. This might explain the 'mystical' experiences and why Rebirthing allegedly affects Imprints so effectively (or more correctly the Hyperventilating that most people experience before they acquire the ability to breathe properly)

The doctor with whom I spoke said that in his opinion, this might potentially cause brain damage and whilst it might be very minor, it was not worth the risk. This put me off as I have a morbid fear of brain damage anyway (though I choose to ignore the harmful effects of alcohol)

I was attracted to Breathwork/Rebirthing for the claims that it can lead a person into mystical states and a hypnotist with whom I spoke said that in his experience it "reached a deeper level than possible with Hypnosis"

Can anybody substantiate or refute that claim?

I would be most interested in your comments and experiences

I may not be able to answer you for a couple of days as due to some personal difficulties, I am not in my own home and do not ahve access to my computer. I will reply Monday daytime (early hours of Sunday for my US friends) if any of you choose to reply


If anybody has emailed me and I have not responded, I apologise but I have not had access to my computer for nearly a week


Joe

[Terry]

Speaking personally, I woud not more use this method, than I would give a client a drug to produce the trance state. I have no idea if it is harmfull, but the effect is not exactly pleasant......Listen to the doctor in this case, and develop the skill to produce any effect without tricks. Terry

[Merlin]

Hi Joe,

Since I am skilld at hypnosis, I don't need the other fad methods :)

Anyway, the mind/body changes breathing rate moment to moment anyway. I trust the mind to know what is best and I seldom try to suggest otherwise.

[Annie]

Hi Joe,

You said : " I was attracted to Breathwork/Rebirthing for the claims that it can lead a person into mystical states and a hypnotist with whom I spoke said that in his experience it "reached a deeper level than possible with Hypnosis" .

You know, I am sure, that your mind/body already has learned how to spontanously change its breathing-depth and rate according to its moment-to-moment needs. How wonderful how well your mind manages to operate without your interfering, consciously, in this well-experienced wisdom. *Trust your mind to continue taking Good care* of that :), as well as all of the other zillions of specialized, and sub-specialized, multi-tasking jobs it does for you, each moment of each day. Rarely would you want to suggest doing something different.

Is this particular "hypnotist" you're refering to limiting himself, plus other people, to the standard-taught "Relaxation/Boredom" ? - induction, hence his reliance on this "Breathwork" method to (hopefully reach a "mystical" level - whatever that may mean to you). And what does he gain at that level ? as well as what can he achieve and accomplish because of his experiences there ?

You can *easily* be guided to any level of trance you want to experience (some people are practiced reaching multiple 1000's of levels) .

And for *RE-birthing " ? : that's just a Piece of cake ! :) ... How about the whole pie ! :D


Annie

[Unregistered]

Joe,

As a student at TCU (in Texas) in the early 80's, I had the chance to do some Rebirthing- 15 sessions to be precise. I also met Leonard Orr at what was then The Yoga Center of Ft. Worth. I was 21 at the time. I'm now 46YO.

Today, I admit to being very amused by people who are interested in Rebirthing but then I too was quite curious about it back then.

IMHO rebirthing "practice" doesn't engage any more of a "deep" trance state then hypnosis, in fact I don't think it generates a deep trance at all. it does generate an altered state but you should ask, "what do I want to achieve by doing so?" nor do I think Rebirthing really achieves anything other than flooding your nervous system/physiology with heightened levels of oxygen. d I also discovered that hyperventilation isn't harmfull either. Its just unnecceary "heavy breathing":) People like to "link" it with all sorts of benefits but I've been there and done that and I know better

Loenard Orr was a nice guy(and very pale. did that guy ever get outside?). but I moved on since then and discovered that he really didn't know anything special. he was certainly crazy about affirmations though (him and Sondra Ray, that's for sure).

Jim R

[Joe]

thanks very much


Leonard Orr and his hyperbole was a little off putting but Stanislav Grof did interest me somewhat and the potential for 'curative breathwork' did interest me


As I understand it, much like Reichian techniques, the body is supposed to release the tensions and tetany is experienced as the CO2 in the blood lowers and the 'traumas are re-accessed/reassessed'

Orr in particular, states that this is healing on a number of levels, physical, emotional and spiritual. I have been in trance numerous times and whilst my last hypnotherapist alleged that I was in Somnabulism, I am obviously not the best one to judge and I never had anything even approaching an epiphany experience. This is what drew me to Rebirthing or therapeutic breathwork in the first place. Hypnosis just didn't seem to be achieving the aims I had

There is part of me that regrets this decision NOT to go ahead but my fear prevents me from pursuing this


So I have decided not to pursue the Rebirthing stuff as it sounds a little dangerous and even if it isn't I cannot shake that belief from my noggin and the ramifications are too bad with me potentially fixating on the effects

Strange really the way I worry and yet I have abused my body with alcohol for years and took enough LSD in my youth to stun an elephant into thinking it was a butterfly!!!!!!!!

[Robert Anthony]

I agree that breathwork is a dangerous hypnotic technique were the subject is guided to the point of hyperventilation. Subjects are persuaded to accept false rational...subjects are encouraged to believe that they have experienced past trauma. The rebirther is happy if he/she can make the subject cry because it is then that he/she can hold them. The client feels grateful and forgets that it was the rebirther who caused the distress. Its a formula that leads to the rebirther making lots of money while the subject feels like a vulnerable child. The rebirther becomes the parent and the subject the child. No support is given to the victim since most people would think that they are stupid for having cooperated in such practices anyway.

Rebirthers tend to suffer of Narccistic Personality Disorder.

[dArKliGhT]

I agree that breathwork is a dangerous hypnotic technique were the subject is guided to the point of hyperventilation. Subjects are persuaded to accept false rational...subjects are encouraged to believe that they have experienced past trauma. The rebirther is happy if he/she can make the subject cry because it is then that he/she can hold them. The client feels grateful and forgets that it was the rebirther who caused the distress. Its a formula that leads to the rebirther making lots of money while the subject feels like a vulnerable child. The rebirther becomes the parent and the subject the child. No support is given to the victim since most people would think that they are stupid for having cooperated in such practices anyway.

Rebirthers tend to suffer of Narccistic Personality Disorder.

Ok... I wasn't going to bring this thread back, cause it seems every1 has made their mind up on the matter, who were involved. But............. Since you have and come w. a perspective that is quite malicious and ignorant. Well... you prompted me so.

I have worked w. the breath in such regards. Not specifically rebirthing, but several other methods, whose catalystic result was quite similar to my understanding.

The goal of such breathing is to dig up, and ignite frozen burried emotions, process them, integrate, and come out the other end that much more free, and whole. In my experience w. several classes in India suitably titled "the alchemy of breath" this is exactly the experience I, and a class full of others had.

Going into such breathing, literally electrified my body in energized activity. Cramping up most major joints on my body, to the point of literally being parallized in my face, hands, arms etc. Scary... yes! Transforming... ABSOLUTELLY! At no point was any suggestion given to me other than the technique, and to go into the experience allowing it in its totality to take me where it wants to. After having my face contorted into locked up positions, hands that of a quadrapalegic and unable to open them otherwise. I think I can speak first hand about such methods of breathwork.

The class was nothing short of POWERFUL! Several people had major breakdowns/breakthroughs. Crying, Pain, Laughing Ecstatically, etc. And after everyone had went through their episodes of ignited repressed emotions, and came out the otherside... everyone was in awe of this methods (and the breaths) transforming ability to the quality of ones life.

With feelings of wholeness, peace, lightness, etc. It literally integrated the body physically in the most effective and fastest way I've ever felt. So when one does a rebirthing session, and goes through some serious and deep emotions that were buried otherwise, and processes them physically. The client (in my experience) will feel nothing short of just that, afterward: Reborn.

My experience was very powerful and absolutely amazing. I reccomend reading some books on it, as well the experience itself. :)