View Full Version : Can i Learn with time lines?
unicito
03-27-2006, 06:58 AM
What if for learn good or be an unconcious speaker of english i go trough time line to when child and introduce the rules of good english grammar then i should be a good english grammar speaker. Are the results the same like had been born in any english native country?
Ok i know is odd to be writing this but if is not good usint time line then what tool is good for learn quick as i could?
Hello Unicito,
TL might not be the best method for you to use. Hypnotherapy might be better to enable you to construct English grammar in a more coherent way. But I fear that you may never speak like someone whose first language is English. However, you can become understandable.
Jack
Nigel H
03-30-2006, 02:41 AM
Hi Jack
There has been quite some discussion on another thread on the use of clean language and installation of beliefs etc .........
Is there any reason for your suggesting Unicito may never speak like someone who's first language is English and only becoming understandable?!?!?!? Do you mean with the use of Hypnosis alone, or in general, even with additional language training?
There are many who have more than one language to a level of complete fluency and I am sure that Unicito could achieve that with the right help and training!!
Cheers
Nig
unicito
03-30-2006, 05:04 AM
What do you recommend me Nigel, any especific tool?
Nigel H
03-30-2006, 05:49 AM
I am afraid I do not personally have experience on using it to learn a language..........
I have contacted a couple of friends to see if they have such experience and will come back to you with any news.
Regards
Nig
Hello Nigel,
It is highly unlikely that anyone could learn English and speak it as a native born English speaker using either hypnotherapy or TimeLine, which is what I said, and what Unicito originally asked for comments on.
Language training might help, but it is not my area so I cannot comment.
As someone who regularly deals with foreign students from all corners of the world I have yet to come across a perfect non-native English speaker. I prefer to work with reality rather than worrying unduly about clean language and belief installation, but I understand your point.
Jack
unicito,
In languages there is a proficency level called 'first fluency' (At least I think that is it), and second fluency and so on and so forth.
First fluency is a standard, where a native speaker would not be able to discern that you werent also a native speaker. I assume that refers to syntax, accent, and things like that, not cultural knowelege.
And I have heard of people, who do have first fluency, in this language or that.
I even heard of a person who spoke 52 languages at first fluency, and could learn another language, to first fluency level, in about a week.
I guess he had a knack for it. :)
When I want to learn something, I use NLP/Hypnosis to build an alternate reality. (Multiple Personality is great if you use it well. :) )
I create a reality where I grew up doing whatever it is I want to learn. My parents were experts at it. My grandparents were who discovered it. And I in my imagination grow up doing whatever it is effortlessly. "Learned it at his mothers breast.", would the the framiliar saying.
Now I have used this, to learn a lot of things very fast. Often faster than many people think possible.
It is a combination of the alternate reality, and a deliberately developed voracious appetite to learn what ever it is.
You might want to give that a bit of thought.
cheers,
skip
What Skip is suggesting is worth a try, Uncito. Personally, I have never heard of or seen someone with 'first fluency' unless they were transplanted to their non-native country at a young age, but that does not mean it does not exist, so a little experimentation might be in order.
Jack
I am sort of with Jack on this. I wouldnt get hung up on the first fluency business.
It may be an actually attainable goal. Or it may be a theoretical, top of the ladder, for 'measuring purposes'.
I suspect that I am not 'first fluency' in english, my native language, because being from East Tennessee, everyone says I have an accent. and there are some words that I dont pronounce like they do in Boston.
cheers,
skip
unicito
04-03-2006, 06:37 AM
Hey skip could share your system step by step with me?
Im not sure what more you need.
I assume you know how to fantasize. I assume that you can fantisize anything you want. So create a reality where everything that you can think of contributes to you learning what you want to learn.
skip
unicito
04-05-2006, 02:18 PM
thanks, to know only using memory tricks!
nUnregistered
05-04-2006, 11:55 AM
Skip,
there are times I need stuff "spelled out" for me and this is one of those time
like when you create this alternate reality....
when you do this, presumbly you are in trance.
do you do this pretend "you grew up doing whatever it is you want to learn" 1x? 2x? 15x?
how do you know when stop "pretending" in trance and exit the trance?
from what age in the pretend timeline do you start and stop this....fantasy?
from birth? to what age?
curiously
Jim R
Hi, Jim.
I'm not Skip, so I can't answer for him, but I can give my answer.
Years ago, I took a class in school where we learned woodworking. We had written directions, and we followed them. Then the teacher would come over and check our work. "Sand it some more."
I thought it was perfectly sanded, but I sanded it some more and my project, a cutting board, became more beautiful. The teacher came over and checked out what I had done. "Very good. Now sand it some more, and round of this edge a bit more."
I was disappointed. I thought I had it right. So I sanded it some more and rounded off the edge. It was more beautiful than ever. This process continued with each of my projects.
Skip, or I, or someone else could write down everything to the tiniest detail, and you still wouldn't have someone there to tell you, "sand it some more." TLT can be learned about in books. It is actually learned, however, in classes.
All of the questions you ask become clear in a class. "Sand is some more" is meaningless by itself, but when you are actually making a project, actually doing the work, such advice and information becomes clear.
Jim, I applaud you on your interest and want to encourage you to go farther. Your next step should really be to take an in-person class. And no, I make no money from any such classes.
Jim,
How are you?
OK as best I can ...
"when you do this, presumbly you are in trance."
Yes, and I would call it a waking trance in that I still function in my everyday reality, but I am not like I am normally. (From others point of view) I am walking, talking , functioning, breathing, living, as if the 'alternate' reality is actual reality. You might consider it as if there were someone who looks exactly as you do and who is living your life, and knows all your friends etc, but whose background is completely different.
"do you do this pretend "you grew up doing whatever it is you want to learn" 1x? 2x? 15x?"
1x, but I do it continuiously until I have aquired the skill I want to the degree I want to have developed it. A day, week, month, longer, is irrelevent. I havent lost any skills I previously had, I can still cope and function as I normally would, it is just that subjectively I think and respond differently especially as it pertains to aquiring the new skill.
"how do you know when stop "pretending" in trance and exit the trance?"
When I have reached the level of proficency I determined I wanted when I did the ecology check.
"from what age in the pretend timeline do you start and stop this....fantasy?"
As far as I am concerned, it is as I described to you, I was born into a family who all did whatever it is that I want to learn. Probably was an expert at in in my previous lives too. :) The only future pace I give it, is to go out far enough that I believe I will have reached the proficency level I want and look back with satisfaction at having learned this so quickly.
"from birth? to what age?"
Yes from birth, even pre-natal see Mom was teaching me before I was born too. To? To a bit beyond when my TOTE model tells me I will have it. Just to give myself a margin of error in the time frame. But I dont set a lot of stock in projecting the future because thus far I seem to always get the proficency level far faster than I expected. But that is because I pursue the new knowelege voraciously. I develop an appetite for it that pretty incredible. And pursue it relentlessly.
Do you recall Carmine discussing learning how to fly in a week? Prolly a couple of things you didnt know about it. First he had to find an instructor who didnt have the limiting belief that it would take longer. That wasnt easy, in fact he had to do some belief change work, to make that happen. Then, the only reason it took a week, was because FAA regulations required 40 hours of instruction/flight time minimum. Carmine was flying long before that, had passed ground school, soloed, and could have taken his flying test well under 40 hours. BUT what Carmine didnt tell anyone was about the hours and hpours he spent in his car, with a mock up of the planes insturment panel, driving up and down the runway, practicing imaginary landings.
Thats the voracious appetite I am talking about. Carmine completed his VFR liscense in the minimum time allowed by law. Who knows how many hours actually spent practicing, both in the plane and in his imagination, not to mention the subjective time spent in deep hypnosis, practicing, all the normal and emergency proceedures, so they were instinctive.
You do the fictional history so that your body/mind is completely comfortable with what you want to do. The appetite determines what you actually physically and mentally, do to accomplish the task. And the complexity and difficulty of the task determines how long you spend in the alternate reality.
Once you have aquired the skill, the 'alternate' reality isnt so alternate any more.
When I have been on a learning tear for a bit, sometimes my friends will note the change, when I am done and say, "Welcome back."
cheers,
skip
nUnregistered
05-04-2006, 08:16 PM
Skip
re:Yes, and I would call it a waking trance in that I still function in my everyday reality, but I am not like I am normally. (From others point of view) I am walking, talking , functioning, breathing, living, as if the 'alternate' reality is actual reality. You might consider it as if there were someone who looks exactly as you do and who is living your life, and knows all your friends etc, but whose background is completely different.
"do you do this pretend "you grew up doing whatever it is you want to learn" 1x? 2x? 15x?"
1x, but I do it continuiously until I have aquired the skill I want to the degree I want to have developed it. A day, week, month, longer, is irrelevent. I havent lost any skills I previously had, I can still cope and function as I normally would, it is just that subjectively I think and respond differently especially as it pertains to aquiring the new skill".
(reply):here I was thinking you were doing this in the privacy of your own home, in an "eyes closed" trance, sitting in some chair for 15min to 1 hour. but its actually an ongoing trance for you,the location(s) are whereever you would be going anyway,the elapsed time is measured in days, weeks, months.
if I decide to do this(I have at least two desired skills in mind, one is to accelerate my learning to play the flute, which has been "off and on";foreign language acquisition: I already speak spanish at a certain level of proficiency and could work on that or I chose a 3rd language to learn; and oddly enough flying. now I have an idea of know what the trance could be like,day to day.
re:"As far as I am concerned, it is as I described to you, I was born into a family who all did whatever it is that I want to learn. Probably was an expert at in in my previous lives too. :) The only future pace I give it, is to go out far enough that I believe I will have reached the proficency level I want and look back with satisfaction at having learned this so quickly."
(reply):by future pace, you mean a rough guess out in the future about what you think your skill level would be
re:"Yes from birth, even pre-natal see Mom was teaching me before I was born too. To? To a bit beyond when my TOTE model tells me I will have it. Just to give myself a margin of error in the time frame. But I dont set a lot of stock in projecting the future because thus far I seem to always get the proficency level far faster than I expected. But that is because I pursue the new knowelege voraciously. I develop an appetite for it that pretty incredible. And pursue it relentlessly."
(reply):it "consumes" you??
re:"Do you recall Carmine discussing learning how to fly in a week? Prolly a couple of things you didnt know about it. First he had to find an instructor who didnt have the limiting belief that it would take longer. That wasnt easy, in fact he had to do some belief change work, to make that happen. Then, the only reason it took a week, was because FAA regulations required 40 hours of instruction/flight time minimum. Carmine was flying long before that, had passed ground school, soloed, and could have taken his flying test well under 40 hours. BUT what Carmine didnt tell anyone was about the hours and hpours he spent in his car, with a mock up of the planes insturment panel, driving up and down the runway, practicing imaginary landings."
(reply):No not directly yet I remember reading a posting on this site where you talked about Carmine doing that,especially the part where he supposedly constructed a similar reality incorporating both his pretend parents and pretend grandparents.
re:"Once you have aquired the skill, the 'alternate' reality isnt so alternate any more."
(reply):I'm gonna do this and I suspect I'm going to have more questions.....
(my flying goal requires that $$$ for lessons that I don't have now so I'll have to delay that.....trance?).
Jim
Jim,
(reply):here I was thinking you were doing this in the privacy of your own home, in an "eyes closed" trance, sitting in some chair for 15min to 1 hour. but its actually an ongoing trance for you,the location(s) are whereever you would be going anyway,the elapsed time is measured in days, weeks, months.
Yes, but it is both. Some skills require that I actually be, somewhere besides my own home doing things. And of course I want to learn them in a trance state. Other things I can use trance to practice perfectly. In that sense I use trance within trance, and occasionally compound it more.
if I decide to do this(I have at least two desired skills in mind, one is to accelerate my learning to play the flute, which has been "off and on";foreign language acquisition: I already speak spanish at a certain level of proficiency and could work on that or I chose a 3rd language to learn; and oddly enough flying. now I have an idea of know what the trance could be like,day to day.
Great. But bear in mind, Carmine wanted to see how fast he could do it. He wanted to do it well, but speed was his primary objective, in that one. Your primary objective for say the flute wont necessarily be fast, but a certain level of proficency. Speed being a secondary or tertiary consideration.
re:"As far as I am concerned, it is as I described to you, I was born into a family who all did whatever it is that I want to learn. Probably was an expert at in in my previous lives too. The only future pace I give it, is to go out far enough that I believe I will have reached the proficency level I want and look back with satisfaction at having learned this so quickly."
(reply):by future pace, you mean a rough guess out in the future about what you think your skill level would be
No a rough guess about how far in my future I will have the proficency I want.
re:"Yes from birth, even pre-natal see Mom was teaching me before I was born too. To? To a bit beyond when my TOTE model tells me I will have it. Just to give myself a margin of error in the time frame. But I dont set a lot of stock in projecting the future because thus far I seem to always get the proficency level far faster than I expected. But that is because I pursue the new knowelege voraciously. I develop an appetite for it that pretty incredible. And pursue it relentlessly."
(reply):it "consumes" you??
If I want it that badly, yes. How badly does a heroine junky want the next fix? I can use that state to drive the aquisition of knowelege. But it is pretty relentless and I dont use it so often. And I would never use that state for the aquisition of things, because I might be tempted to simply steal them. I tend to use a sort of base state, and add 'flavors' that tailor the driving force to the specific things/skills/knoweledge I want to aquire.
re:"Once you have aquired the skill, the 'alternate' reality isnt so alternate any more."
(reply):I'm gonna do this and I suspect I'm going to have more questions.....
(my flying goal requires that $$$ for lessons that I don't have now so I'll have to delay that.....trance?).
Why delay it, aquiring the wherewithal to accomplish your goal is part of it, isnt it?
Jim, just realize that if you adopt this 'alternate' reality, that is only part of what allows you to accomplish your goal. Consider it 'preparing the soil' for planting. It is the motivation strategy that you use which will fuel the drive to succeed. If you use a very strong one, your priorities will change, and they will change to fit the values the person you are in this alternate reality would have, and to suit the drive to succeed with those differing values.
You could find yourself, breaking up a relationship because it interferes with you getting your goal, or maybe taking a different job to fit your needed study and practice time, etc.
So fair warning, good ecology check !!!
cheers,
skip
Merlin
05-05-2006, 11:24 AM
Years ago, I took a class in school where we learned woodworking. We had written directions, and we followed them. Then the teacher would come over and check our work. "Sand it some more."
I thought it was perfectly sanded, but I sanded it some more and my project, a cutting board, became more beautiful. The teacher came over and checked out what I had done. "Very good. Now sand it some more, and round of this edge a bit more."
I was disappointed. I thought I had it right. So I sanded it some more and rounded off the edge. It was more beautiful than ever. This process continued with each of my projects.
Excellent example!