What's with the NLP trademark?

[Tom]

On many NLP websites (particularly the Bandler site) Neuro Linguistic Programming has a trademark symbol next to it. I understood that NLP was not trademarked - has anything changed?

[Merlin]

>Neuro Linguistic Programming has a trademark symbol next to it.

yep

>I understood that NLP was not trademarked...

You misunderstand 'trademark'

A trademark is a symbol to mark a product.
That symbol you see is a mar someone is using to mark or identify a product.
You cannot use that mark (legally) without permission.
It has nothing to do with NLP itself. It is just a mark.

[Don]

Merlin is quite correct.
You can copyright text--but you cannot copyright ideas. To show that something has a copyright, you must either use the word "copyright" and give the date of the copyright or use a letter "c" within a circle. A "c" by itself and not in a circle has no legal standing. You do not have to file for a copyright with the government, however, if a court case come up, you are more likely to have success. A symbol of an "R" in a circle followed by a date indicates that the recording on which the symbol is impressed has a copyright.

Names cannot receive a copyright. Instead, they get a trademark. On Bandler's site I noticed that Neuro-Hypnotic Repatterningª, Design Human Engineeringª, and Persuasion Engineeringª, all of which are more recent than NLP, have a trademark, while Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Personal Enhancement, Charisma Enhancement and Hypnosis (of course) did not. To legally use the trademarked names you must have authorization from the trademark holder. Some people use variations to dodge this. For example, I could try to use "Human Design Engineering" to describe something I was doing. Bandler could take me to court over this, claiming I was trying to steal his good will and imply I was doing what he was under his trademarked name. Suits such as this happen all the time. Often, it happens because people are in totally different fields. For instance, the Beatles, who own Apple Records, have had several lawsuits against Apple computers. AFAIK, not one person in the world has mistaken a Macintosh computer made by Apple for a copy of Abbey Road or Revolver, but so far, Apple computers has paid Apple records lots of money.

I believe that a Registered Trademark goes one step further. This records not just the name, but also the design of the name. Thus, the famous scrip version of Coca Cola is registered. If somebody tried to use "Cola Coca" using the same script, they could be sued.

[Tom]

Thanks for the reply - I just wondered because I found this page - http://www.imagineit.org/NewSite/Articles/nlp/artsociety.htm, where NLP has the tm symbol beside it and I know some people who want to learn NLP but have been told they can only say they are NLP practitioners if they have trained with a society of NLP registered trainer.

[skip]

Tom,

Let me try, and clarify. It is a bit of a twisted laurel hell, but I can be very brief and simple, if no one holds me to too strict an interpretation.

Bandler and Grinder codified something that they called NLP. They didnt patent it.

Bandler and Grinder split up.

There was no control over quality, and no way to ensure a continuing revenue stream, from the people they had trained, or those subsequently trained, by their students. Ill leave it to you, as to which was the more important.

Bandler tried to 'go back', and patent NLP, after he realized, it was out of his control.

He lost in court.

Anyone can teach NLP, and call it NLP, no matter who trained them, or to what level of proficency.

You cannot claim to be part of, or use the "Society of NLP" 's trademark, without their permission. The "Society" does try to ensure minimum standards, and also provides for a continuing revenue stream ("refresher courses" sometimes called, in other fields, continuing education, to maintain your certificate.).

Bandler then devised DHE (Design Human Engineering) which he did patent. He then declared NLP obsolete. This stopped the "hemmoraging" and brought 'all' further development, at least development from Bandler, under his control.

It didnt stop continued development from others tho, and there are a lot of quality NLP people out there, continuing to develop new material, who have had minimum or no contact with Bandler.

Grinder, who by contract with Bandler, was prohibited from teaching NLP in the US, has adopted the concept of "New Code", and teaches wherever the hell he pleases.

I hope that helps.

skip

[Merlin]

>Thus, the famous scrip version of Coca Cola is registered. If somebody tried to use "Cola Coca" using the same script, they could be sued.

Quite true. You can duplicate or improve on the product (Pepsi, RC, Shasta to name a few *colas* ) but you cannot use the trademark and call your product *coca cola*

BTW Don, Apple computers were sued when they used the computer for *Music* because Apple records does Music. As long as Apple computers does computers, but not music, it isn't an issue.

[oznlp]

Gedday

The whole ugly patent thing is a bit sad isn't it?
I have decided to patent the idea of having ideas
In future, people will not be able to have an idea until they have gained permission from me.

My problem is, I have no idea how to patent ideas so I am stumped

Owen

[starfish]

Gedday Oz


I have an idea that may help you, but I cannot tell you coz I don't have permission to have ideas and you may sue me for having one in the forst place if you actually go ahead with the patent thing.


And yes it is all very sad. I have now witnessed several leading NLP teachers continually telling their pupils which form of NLP is best.

In Grinders new book, Whispering In the Wind, there is a transcript of the court agreement reached between the two men regarding NLP. Once you actually debunk the legal jargon it would appear that they spent a lot of money just to agree not to slag each other off.

[Seagoat]

Hi!

Further to the replies above, does anyone know what this refers to? I found it on the Paul Mckenna Training website, but the link is broken, as the ANLP seem to be rebuilding their site.

"The Association for Neuro-Linguistic Programming (ANLP) has issued a public apology to Richard Bandler, Paul McKenna and Michael Breen. Click here to read it."

Many thanks!

Seagoat

[dON dOPER]

Re Society of NLP

Their largest trainings are with Paul McKenna Training in the UK. I have been to one of thier trainings and really enjoyed it Paul Mckenna is such a great showman. Bandler does great hypnotic metaphors and inductions.Breen is awsome charismatic and Humourous.

It inspired me to go and learn it for real so I went to another NLP training school and really learned how to apply this stuff proffesionaly.

I would have never got that with the society of NLP as part of thier training is after all educatining you to be dependent on them whilst they install aversion anchors on other trainers and schools to keep you in thier feel good factor loop. And it does feel good.
Chinese meal synrome occurs and it does not sustaine you to long.
The Irony is that snlp students never learn enough NLP to understand whats goining on and how manipulated they are bieng sold the Naked NLP Costume. Kings New Clouthes still sell.

[Tomy vee]

Is Society of NLP oWNED by Ron Bandler or is it Richard Hubbard.Because it bears the same trademark.

[Connie]

To resusitate an old old topic... :)

It's nice and GOOD and proper in my opinion to honor the co-originator of this stuff, a man who has brought such a fabulous resource into mass consciousness. I'm happy to be "legit" as far as using the trademark on NLP, and the Society of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (tm). And I do so with pride!!! I'm licensed to use it, and train it, by Bandler. And that means something important to ME.

As far as being brainwashed to avoid other trainings, apparently that either doesn't exist or didn't "take" with me. I've studied with and had many other trainers and experienced other "schools" of NLP, with some terrific people. It's all good! :love:

[Poodle]

Impossible to write that better myself.

There is a tiny little chink in The Society of NLP(tm) as we correctly put -Bandler after it. Chris Hall is the only other person allowed to use it and it is real if Chris uses it. Chris hung around in the Bandler v. NLP world to the very end and she is the only person that prevailed. The others just dropped out, gave up and wanted to stop spending their money on attorneys.

I personally have seen people write: "We hold no ill will against Richard Bandler" and the very first thing out of their mouths are 'Bandler-bashing'. We, howener, are kind of like family in The Society of NLP and we do keep up with any and all of Richard's new ideas that are to be included in our trainings.

Pood :)

[Connie]

Training with Richard Bandler this week (and next). He is incredible!!! :)