View Full Version : An impossible case...
Harvester
10-02-2004, 01:07 PM
Please forgive me if in this post I sound a bit desperate/aggressive but I have to admit that I'm not in a very great mood in these days. Mine is a great problem!
I'll try to be as accurate as possible!
Since more than 1 year I've started being interested in brain science, psychology, NLP and similar things and I can say that before that I considered myself a truly intellectual being for that age among all the people I knew. Intellectual in everything I did, anything I started I did it with greatest zealousness and also at school I was the best in my year, a great percentage of points much better than the others. I was always active and my only defect was a lack of pragmatic "trial-and-error" spirit: my parents (who know nothing about psychology and related topics) would often call me "a jack of all trades but nothing in practical life". Yes, I was very bad in social life and also my very few friends accused me for staying always at home. I didn't have the "natural talent" to communicate, yet didn't worry about my unspontaneity and was happy to stay in my sphere of books/school/etc.
It often occurs that when "intellectuals" do fall in love disasters happen...
Infact, already before studying brain sciences/etc., I happily lived with the idea that emotions are only illusory and "all the others" will one day realize the truth.
Well, I fell in love with a girl whom I still consider a real socially talented goddess, who would be able to communicate even with the most unsocial being of the world.
[Classical/Poetic] literature and belief contributed to feed my imagination and I was truly in love with her until, after various depressions, neuralgias and suicide thoughts I trusted my mind and started reading A LOT of brain science related things: NLP, neurobiology, everything!
I still remember how I was laughing at the way I had behaved in past (believing to be very intellectual, believing that all hated me, believing in love as something mystic, etc.) after I read those things and it practically woke the hidden parts of my individuum.
I always knew how to be happy, and, as a coincidence, I was able to practice all those studies in a place out of my school, out of my city, away from all anchors to my obscure past, in a sort of summer course. The result was fascinating: from the person who knew only books and theory I had evolved into the most social being I had ever met. I did things that really made me feel, for the first time in my life, a person who is wanted, required, admired, loved, and, most of all, equal or even more "important" than others, and that's what also the others thought...
Nice adventure! I met wonderful people with wonderful qualities...
Nonetheless, as I returned to my school I realized that I couldn't carry on being considered a jerk among these walls where I practically lived in for 13 years!!
Remember: these people knew the old Harvester! Boring, nerd, jerk, only good at school, and always in front of the computer, all girls literally avoiding him, "lot of theory, no practice guy"...
And their attitude towards my new behaviour was totally contraddictory!
I used a lot of NLP trying to give a new impression of myself, and, indeed, I managed to look very impressive especially among the younger girls, but with time also among the ones my age.
Nevertheless, all this wasn't enough for me! I definitely craved for that position, that social status I had experienced in that short period of time (summer course)... that "alpha status", how some may call it!
But I was weak! Why? Because I had the constant pressure of the "past"! That started anchoring new beliefs in me, as I noticed later...
I always tried to be objective, always tried to remember what I learned in the books, always tried to recall the positive experiences I've had. But "reality" was stronger!
If you were in my position, wouldn't you start having doubts about yourself when every morning you go to school full of enthusiasm to practice NLP and be a good person, and every afternoon you come back home angry, jealous, classmatehating, totally dominated by negative feelings and automatic negative thoughts, totally disappointed with everything you do despite the great effort
(in the past few weeks it often occured that when I paced someone even very subconsciously they literally avoid me, run away, or similar)?
As a consequence I try to discover my mistake, yet never find one, since I always do everything as it's said in NLP!
As a consequence to all my effort and failure I am not even able to concentrate during lesson since I keep trying to pace my classmates and teachers, and start thinking negatively!
As a consequence I start seeing that my classmates are really intelligent, and INDEED, these days I'm literally fascinated by the way they speak, their spontaneity even at lesson, their 100% good marks, and at the same time, their social charisma obtained without NLP.
What would you think when you always remain with an EMPTY brain, uncreative, unspontaneous, unable to make others laugh?
What would you think when people you consider intelligent start pissing you off, start looking at each other with a "this guy is really MAD" look?
What would you think if your old friends (what I mean: who know you from the "past") always publicly give birth to gaffes calling you the "NLP-Idiot"?
What I mean is: it is IMPOSSIBLE that there's NO problem when ALL my classmates (and people who know me since the past) are highly good at studies, go out with different girls everyday, have never read anything about NLP and even laugh at me when I talk about it, and at the same time I ALWAYS try to practice NLP, always study and almost never go out, noone is interested in me and still I have totally bad results in what I do in my school, socially and educationally:
What I sometimes tend to believe is...
1) that probably I never was able to learn NLP properly or that NLP is INCOMPATIBLE with my "physical aura".
2) that as a consequence I am an idiot, that's what all my "old" friends tell me, my parents, my relatives, etc. who know my me from the past.
3) that as a consequence all friends with whom I was and am still able to stabilize rapport with (summer course + various younger people and new people I meet) are either talking on my back or idiots themselves.
4) that people who pay compliments to me (regarding my appearance or my talents) or fall in love with me are idiots.
5) that NLP and phrases like "all brains have the same infinite possibilities" are a only kind of "consolation for idiots", that's what my friends would say.
I sounded quite exaggerated but that's what has been anchored on me in the past few weeks.
Please help me to prove myself that my beliefs are wrong, that this is all a bad dream or tell me whether I should do an MRI of my brain...
Please forgive me again for this immature,idiot,unpragmatic post!
Hi Harvester,
Damn, let's see, Hmmmm, Ok here goes,,,
1) First - Emergency intervention prescription: Stop, CHILL OUT, whoa, STAND DOWN, take 5,,,,, Failure to take this medication could result in your brain exploding !
2) Second - Grab a telephone book and look under Hypnotherapist and/or NLP and get an appointment.
I respect your intelligence and desire to help yourself, however, don't forget that sometimes the doctor that treats himself has a fool for a patient.
Any other advice you get herein may well just send you off on another "binge" to treat yourself, re-read #1 and then go find that telephone book.
Sincerely,
EC
Harvester,
It seems as if you have run into the classic problem that rapid self change presents and you were somewhat unprepared for it.
Other people, with whom you have been aquainted, do not know or understand, this "new you". They dont know how to relate to the new you, and as a result there is a tremendous amount of pressure exerted (by them both consciously and unconsciously) on you, to "be the old Harvester).
Theraputic change isnt done in a vacume, it includes everyone around you, and if you change rapidly, as you did, others simply havent been able to catch up.
Now you know, you can be the person you want to be, that you actually are, that person. The question is, "How much do you want to let the opinion of some others, not all others, but just some, dictate for you, whom you consider yourself to be.
All behavior is in context. If the friends you made over that summer, were to see you now, they would unconsciously want you to be who they remember, too. That is who you are to them. Your old friends naturally want you to be who they remember. It is easier for them to relate.
The only relevent question is, "Who do you want to be?"
You have seen, and experienced a "side" of yourself, that had many, or all the qualities you dreamed about. You also have a "side" of yourself that was more predominant while you were the crysilas, before the butterfly emerged.
As you have discovered, you cant go back, and fit their old image, nor do you want to.
What you can do is continue on, and if necessary make new friends, like you did before, and give these old friends time, to learn who this new person is. The ones who decide they like the new you, are the friends you want to keep anyway.
And remember, it isnt an "all or nothing" game. You can keep those qualities of the 'old you', that you like, and find useful, and blend them with those of the 'new you'.
cheers,
skip
Hi, Harvester.
First, I went to echo EC. You have thrown a tremendous amount of issues our way, indicating that you have a tremendous number of issues in you. In fact, my guess is that you may only be aware of some of the issues you are dealing with and that the many symptoms, feelings, and emotions you currently have are only shadows of the real issues at hand.
I also want to echo Skip. One of the paradigms of hypnotherapy and NLP is that personal change can occur in an instant, but that doesn't mean that people around you are going to change. They expect you one way and to see you another way is a suprise and possibly a shock. They may not know how to respond.
You gave a number of questions at the end. So let me answer by the number:
1) As far as I know, NLP can be theoretically understood from a book. But so can brain surgery. Merely because one understands the theories and techniques does not mean that they can use them. Just because you read a book and know how to hold a scalpel doesn't mean I'd want you to do brain surgery on me! From what you've described, I would say that you learned about NLP, but without proper training and experience, you may not have the depth of understanding and experience necessary to use many of the NLP techniques properly. It has nothing to do with your "physical aura." Resolution: Get some NLP training and get your head out of the books.
2) You're not an idiot. It is natural to resist change. Most people not only resist change, but as they get older, the resistence increases. Any change in others is viewed with distrust and is frequently discounted. Resolution: Stop listening to others and start doing what you want to do. That may mean that some of your friendships will end. Sorry about that. You have to decide: Become the person you want to be or keep the "friends" who want to tie you to what you see as a less than desirable past.
3) People are what they are: individuals. Start treating them that way. Start standing up for yourself. If somebody treats you poorly, stop hanging with them.
4) Look in the mirror and you will see the poster boy for low self-esteem. If you think people who like you are idiots, what you're really saying is that you're unworthy of being liked. Balderdash! (And how often do you see that word today?). But dealing with self-esteem and self-worth issues are something you will need to do. Resolution: Go to a psychiatrist and they will give you drugs to help you with this. Go to a psychologist and they will talk to you for years and maybe you will get to a more positive state of mind about yourself. Go to a NLP Master Practitioner or a hypnotherapist and they will help you get to a better state of mind in a few sessions. Stay the way you are and simply enjoy your negativity, but quit whining about it--nobody likes a whiner.
5) If your friends think that having infinite possibilities is only for idiots, what does that say about your friends? What does that say about you for having such friends? Resolution: the same as for point 4.
Harvester, there's no way this forum can help you get the assistance you need for all of the changes you seek. But we can point out the direction. EC, Skip, and myself have given you some ideas, directions, and options. The truth is, you will never be happy going back to that person who thought "emotions are only illusory." And from what you've written, when you get assistance on your question--via NLP, hypnotherapy, psychology, psychatric medication, or some other system--some of your "friends" who can't tolerate someone being happy and achieving goals will desert you. I'm sorry to let you know this.
But right now, I would suggest, along with Skip, that you have to decide what you want--who you want to be. And as long as you depend upon those who enable you to follow a negative attitude, you will keep getting drawn back into what you were.
Good luck.
Harvester
10-07-2004, 12:28 PM
Hello everybody!
I deeply apologize for replying late. I had lots of work in the past few days....
I really feel impelled by the deepest of my "soul" to tell you that I truly appreciated your intervention, which in addition to reinforce my self-esteem also strengthened my convintions.
I admit that in my previous post I truly was in a state of distress: a multitude of negative thoughts had made my authority over my emotions collapse.
Now I feel much better.
I'll organize my reply in the order of issues you presented to me and as a conclusion I shall also state my ideology of life (with some questions), so that my "personality" can be more clear. I sometimes also feel a bit guilty for wasting other people's time just because of my philosophic (automatically negative) mind ;)
Let's get started...
E.C.
I initially considered following your advice but I remembered that my financial funds wouldn't allow me consulting a real NLP expert, psychiatrist, etc. :(
skip
Regarding the "new me - old me - conflict":
I remember about that being the same thing I thought of as soon as I came back to my scholar environment after my peak adventure.
I realized that very few would accept my new "myself" and that was the reason I strongly perceived the necessity to change their opinion about me or feed them with my new features. Why? Because I did foresee a "drawback".
I knew from what I had learned (in NLP, etc.) that if I didn't do anything, their both conscious and subconscious behaviour would have influenced me in the last few years of school in a very negative way.
I kept practising NLP in every occasion, and I did have success, but only, as I had mentioned before, on the new people. And the more the new people met [me among] the old friends, the more I also felt that also the new people would get mixed impressions about me. This still happens.
Therefore I often tried to keep contact with the friends with whom I had the "perfect relations", and although they are too far, whenever I feel their contact (whether it's per e-mail or in real life) I also feel highly motivated, etc. I am what I call the "Maximum Myself".
But as soon as I (consciously or subconsciously) remember my "old anchors", my thoughts interpret the Maximum Myself as an illusory feeling, sometimes I even feel GUILTY about trying to "be someone else" (although I know this feeling is only a hurdle). Looks like the old anchors prevailed in me...
I tried asking myself why this had taken place and forged a theory:
maybe because in my deepest subconscious it's my old friends whom I really needed to prove my development, my Maximum Myself.
Because they are part of my youth and in future, as an adult, I would like to think back of a positive happy youth. And also because it would effectively prove to me that I DID develop myself in field! In few words: a positive youth would have gratified me for the rest of my life.
Maybe that's the reason the words of old friends have a greater impact on me than my own experiences. Maybe that's also what happens with my parents...
Don
About the "shadows" of the real issues:
That's the point! I often think that MY "automatic negative thoughts" and sometimes also the negative results of my efforts (such as: trying to enhance concentration capabilities, making them even worse [but this may also be a consequence of negative convintions], saying "bullsh**" etc.) are not just a pattern of thoughts that have been impressed in my neural convintions, but that they are a kind of symptom, a feedback to some physical damage in my brain. That's what makes me think sometimes that I should do an REM. Just to make things clearer: even in this precise moment, when I write about "brain damage" the positive-mindedness with which I started writing this post slowly sinks.... maybe the key to all my problems is anxiety, fear, etc.?
Regarding all your answers 1-5:
I totally agree with them when it comes to telling you my opinion. And actually I always HAD those opinions. I swear I would have given exactly the SAME answers you gave me. The problem is, I'm unsure about holding to those ideas, about remaining convinced about them when I get anxious... (and, subconsciously, when my friends laugh about such opinions, despite them being highly intelligent, are always happy, have the best marks at school, and have 20 times more friends than me).
And now I would like to illustrate some of my life ideas, ambitions, etc.
> And remember, it isnt an "all or nothing" game <
There is no "all" (the world is infinitely big) and there is no "nothing". You always achieve something, you always learn something. But experience taught me that it's always necessary to aim higher than your goal! ;)
My aim in life is to secure integrity and constantly grow up higher and higher... perfection is unreal, because you can always neverendingly do better (and NLP states that you can learn and learn till you die)! ;)
> The truth is, you will never be happy going back to that person who thought "emotions are only illusory." <
I think it's rather a fact than a thought. Maybe I used the word "illusory" in the wrong place, but despite being always guided by them I always see emotions as chemical processes of the human body, which can often be unproductive...
My favorite "emotion" is the one that describes a mixture of curiosity, feeling happy about curiosity, and being in a constant sort of "happy engagement/concentration" while doing something. I experience this state of mind especially when I talk to new people but in past I also had it when I studied and worked for school or read an interesting book. And the results were ALWAYS positive!
What I like most of it is that thanks to it I never fall into other emotions that are negative or unproductive (for example, it would be terrible to be happy, peaceful and satisfied just a few months before the diploma examinations...).
I use positive emotions as a vehicle to reach my target, unlike people whose target IS happiness itself!
To end this post I'd like to ask some other things that may be the basis of my anxieties...
A) Is it possible that social engagement, making new friends, (especially of the opposite gender), is a cause of inhibition of the mental activities needed to get high marks in studies?
Maybe it's something my parents put into my head: it always made me see studies and friends as two different things to concentrate on...
B) Doesn't the NLP statement of "infinite possibilities" go against the scientifically proved fact that intelligence is the result of the strategic position of grey matter in specific areas of the brain?
For example, it is said that it's impossible to become a good speaker (and I mean really good, like one of my friends who is orally spontaneous with the most difficult grammatic forms of language) if your Broca and Wernicke area aren't (strategically/genetically) well developed...
Once again let me thank you very much for the help you gave me!
To end this post I'd like to ask some other things that may be the basis of my anxieties...
A) Is it possible that social engagement, making new friends, (especially of the opposite gender), is a cause of inhibition of the mental activities needed to get high marks in studies?
Maybe it's something my parents put into my head: it always made me see studies and friends as two different things to concentrate on...
B) Doesn't the NLP statement of "infinite possibilities" go against the scientifically proved fact that intelligence is the result of the strategic position of grey matter in specific areas of the brain?
For example, it is said that it's impossible to become a good speaker (and I mean really good, like one of my friends who is orally spontaneous with the most difficult grammatic forms of language) if your Broca and Wernicke area aren't (strategically/genetically) well developed...
A) Is it possible? Yes. However, my guess is that it is a combination symptom/cause of something deeper. That is, something causes the problems of social interaction and those problems are reflected/exacerbated resulting in study difficulties. If you only deal with the intermediary problem (technically called a "presenting problem") you won't be dealing with the true issues. I would contend that if you get rid of that problem (and it is certainly possible) without dealing with the ultimate causes in some way, those causes may manifest in new ways that are even more problematic than the current difficulties. My suggestion: get into some form of therapy.
B) Hypnotherapy (and NLP) deal with the mind, not the brain. Standford-Benet, the creators of the concept of IQ and administrators of the official IQ tests, have admitted that they don't know what it measures. TV shows that claim to test intelligence usually only test the ability to have memorized trivia. So how can intelligence be measured?
You took a look at the brain, however it is quite clear that different parts of the brain can take over functions which are not usually assigned to them. If that's true--and the brain can be remapped--then the concept of "infinite possibilites" is not only possible, but likely, and is only limited by preconceptions which say it is not possible.
Harvester,
"I remember about that being the same thing I thought of as soon as I came back to my scholar environment after my peak adventure."
"But as soon as I (consciously or subconsciously) remember my "old anchors", my thoughts interpret the Maximum Myself as an illusory feeling, sometimes I even feel GUILTY about trying to "be someone else" (although I know this feeling is only a hurdle). Looks like the old anchors prevailed in me..."
OK I wouldnt say the 'old anchors' prevailed, but it is apparent that they still operate. And they should. And this shows, if nothing else, the power of a well set anchor.
For someone to have a peak experience and then go back to the same house, the same family, the same job, the same friends, the same tv shows, the same books, well you get the drift... How long do you expect that person to be able to resist reverting, no matter how peak the experience was?
Two things your NLP friends failed to do was to make the 'new me' feel like the 'old me' and the 'old me' feel strange. That would have helped, and it still isnt too late. You probably would need competent assistance to accomplish this, and it would be worth the 'trip' to get it. The second is making sure the outcome was ecological, in that you would have already not just anticipated possible problems, but you would have already worked out, with your unconscious, the solutions and future paced them. I suspect that this too is something an experienced NLPer would needed for.
Another thing is to recognize the power of the 'old anchors' and either do the NLP work to defuse them (which could be considerable) or get yourself out of the old anchors as much as possible.
Move, change the wardrobe, change the sheets and curtains, adopt different routines morning and evening, even to the order you do your morning abolutions in, hang with the new friends more, do enough to keep up with the old friends that you want to preserve, but be Machievelian about tiraging the old anchors.
The question really is what life do you want to live, and if something is holding you back, is it worth the cost?
This is something I experienced when I first started holding trainings. People went home, and quit their jobs, got divorced, etc, etc. That is when I started time releasing change, so that it occurred over a more gradual time frame, and this gave the people around the person time to adjust, rather than insist they accept someone completely different, even if better.
BUT Harvester, you dont have that luxury now. So you must decide, "Is this so called 'new you' what you want?" And I dont like the 'new you/old you' lable, because it is you, there is no new and old, there is just you and the way you want to experience this world. So forget about what others think about you, it only matters that you are the person you want to be. And if you are, the friends you now have, that are worth having, will still be with you, and happy that you are happy.
You really do not want other people, some circumstance you happen to be in, dictate who you are, and how you feel about yourself. Yes I agree that some concern for the opinions of others is necessary, we do have to coexist in society. But concern for others opinion cannot be the higher value. Your own self respect, and who you are, must come first.
You are on a grand adventure, and the more you percieve it as such the more you can enjoy how it works, as you learn from it, and the more you get to grow, and become wiser for the experience.
Look at what you have learned already. Could you have had the same type experience before you learned about NLP, and understood so much about what was happening even as it was going on? You cant put the cork back in the bottle, nor, I suspect, would you want to.
And as interesting as what you have experienced is, the real question is where do you want to go from here, and how do you make that outcome ecological?
Then go for it.
skip
Unregistered
10-07-2004, 01:57 PM
Lots of good advice here. I agree with the first posting concerning your position. I just briefed through your posting, but it seems to me that you have to much internal dialogue going on. Thats NLP for you. Keep it simple and learn to love yourself with some outside help.
Frank Puclick Rules
Hi again Harvester,
I would like to respond, but then again there is nothing left to say. Skip, Don and others have done a magnificent job !
I wish you the very best, and do let us know how you sort all this out.
EC
Harvester
10-20-2004, 01:51 PM
Before starting the post I'm compelled to say that maybe it's not very kind continuing this topic under "NLP, etc." since it looks rather "Advice-Seeking"... it's up to the moderators decision obviously!
Well, here are my developments...
I read all your advice and follow them each day, I'm in harmony with what I do, and I do things correctly when I do them.
I know who I want to be, I know what I want to be and I also know my ambitions very well.
The problem is, all that goes in contrast with the results...
Example:
At the end of last schoolyear I set myself many goals, especially one: improving my linguistic capacities in a language (german, to be precise). The entire summer holidays I studied again all the grammar rules, did exercises at least two hours a day for more than two months. And I was happier and happier each day of progress!
Two weeks ago we had our literature examination. The days before it I not only studied the book the examination was going to handle, but I also re-studied again german grammar, this time supporting myself with photoreading (yet another book in my NLP library, by Paul R. Scheele) and I was totally self confident the day before the examination.
I wrote the examination.
And yesterday we got our results.
I had scored 72 points out of hundred and was the 5th best of the class.
Now, one will say, that's good! See, you're doing progress!
My new german teacher told me that he was really impressed by my expression capacities.
That's what the typical positive thinker would think...
But now, please, let's be rational!
Last school year I was AT LEAST 2nd best with at least 90% points, and actually I had studied so long during holidays hoping to go excellent...
And what makes me doubt even more on my "progress" (and think that it's rather the opposite...) is the fact that all the people who beat me are youngsters who never even THINK about studying or selfimprovement techniques.
Everything gets worse when I look at the guy who wrote the best examination: he smokes 20-30 cigarettes every day (and I swear, if science discovers that smoking makes intelligence, I will start smoking), he is involved in at least two relationships (girlfriends) a week(!), he generally spends his time going here and there in the city on his bike, he NEVER studies (he only participates during lessons when he wants, rarely) and STILL he is the person with the highest marks in all subjects (and in the same time also the most social, rational and friendly [except when calling me "Idiot", "Neurolinguistical Dumbhead", etc.]).
In the past schoolyears (when I was not interested in social relationships and could have been defined the typical nerd), when I studied a lot (for school) and didn't have much time to dedicate to automatic negative thoughts, internal dialogues, etc. I was always 1 or 2 points more or less than this guy, yet another fact that makes me conclude one mathematical consequence:
Since I've started to do the general improving of my life, the sum of what has improved has not changed, meaning that I've improved a lot socially but the price is high: I am obstacled in reaching Oxford standards.
The statement of "Frank Puclick Rules" regarding my "internal dialogue" made me "listen/observe/feel actively" to what happens in my subconscious while I do anything (nowadays)...
For instance, while I was studying mathematics a few hours ago (since tomorrow we have a math examination, but as you see, I've given up...):
I am stuck at an operation. I open the first page of my exercise book trying to find a solution. I find the solution to continue.
I subconsciously visualize the classmate who had written the solution on the blackboard the day we had dealt with that operation. I think that in that moment he was better than me at such a simple operation. I remember that in that moment I was something else with my head, distracted. Then I see/hear all other people who do maths in my class and my sight focusses on those people who make me feel an idiot.
Then I remember that they are people who always have fun and don't worry about improving. Then I remember that some of them wrote better examinations than me. Then I concentrate on my internal dialogue...
and now comes the discovery of the year: almost always I hear the words spoken by voices of my friends. Of those who laugh at me and talk with me. And when I think properly, the "dialogue" practically let's me hear what they would REALLY tell. It's actually never my own voice, or the voice of people who like me. It's as if there's a "parliament" in which the opponents always win.
The fact is, they win even when I (with "I" I mean all I've learned in my life, my most personal myself who is know writing this text) know that what is being thought in that moment is superficial, something I've already dealt with uncountable times (my friends are tyrans!).
My conclusions are:
a) I have uncontrollable internal dialogues.
b) I am influenced by friends and what they say ("Talents are innate!", "Be happy with yourself!","Don't think only of studying!","Follow your instincts!","Don't believe in occultisms such as photoreading, etc.","Be yourself!", and other similar maximes that are totally belief-based and don't correspond with what I learned) although I wouldn't like to...
c) (a) as a consequence of (b)
d) (b) as a consequence of (a)
[to be honest, the mental associations go on infinitely: sometimes the way a person had told me something reminds me the notes of a song I wouldn't like to think of; that song makes me visualize someone dancing; this particular person had told me this/that/etc. ... all this during the attempt of studying math...]
Whatever!
My ambition is to be a friend towards everyone, that's a reason I actually started learning NLP, etc. and actually I even saw that I have become a friend of everyone... but if I'm so influenceable, so weak in spite of my experiences and knowledge, I prefer being a friend in one direction, meaning: until I get my diploma that will permit me to go to a good university (Oxford standards!), I'd wish to give a brake to all my thoughts (while I'm writing this I subconsciously consider hearing someone saying that's immoral, that I have to be myself and live with my automatic negative thoughts,... sigh).
I respect other's opinions.
But if their opinions (especially the anti-NLP opinions) keep worrying me subconsciously, I know I will NEVER go to a good university...
I must concentrate on my current priority, so it's either forget the idea of becoming too much confident with certain people (Macchiavelli) or find a way to get rid of my superficial thoughts as soon as possible...
the final diploma examination is not too far anymore...
Oh, one more curiosity!
I actually was aware of this since long time.
Every moment of the day songs keep playing in my subconscious as if it were an immense database of Winamp songs. And the songs are clear, as if they were playing right in background!
Good evening everybody! ;)
Unregistered
10-21-2004, 02:13 AM
Look deep into your heart and soul. Competing with the outside world is not your agenda. Use the gifts you have been given with NLP to love your soul and spirit, and then you will experience , the rest.
Harvester,
All beginning counselors know that the 1st goal of therapy is to lead the counselee out of the (vicious circle) emotional well they have fallen into. They also know that if they (the counselor) should allow themselves to be dragged into the emotions (well) with the counselee, there are now two lost individuals that will have to be rescued instead of one.
If you are both, the one in the well, and the one doing the saving that has also fallen into the well, then where does that leave your chances of sucess ?
Re-consider
1) First - Emergency intervention prescription: Stop, CHILL OUT, whoa, STAND DOWN, take 5,,,,, Failure to take this medication could result in your brain exploding !
2) Second - Grab a telephone book and look under Hypnotherapist and/or NLP and get an appointment.
EC
j0hnny#
10-22-2004, 03:42 AM
Shows you are human man, keep the spirit alive, at least you are living the struggle.... that is a source for true art... Very honest post. Looks, sounds, whatever, like you are well on path to a breakthrough.
Before starting the post I'm compelled to say that maybe it's not very kind continuing this topic under "NLP, etc." since it looks rather "Advice-Seeking"... it's up to the moderators decision obviously!
Well, here are my developments...
I read all your advice and follow them each day, I'm in harmony with what I do, and I do things correctly when I do them.
I know who I want to be, I know what I want to be and I also know my ambitions very well.
The problem is, all that goes in contrast with the results...
Example:
At the end of last schoolyear I set myself many goals, especially one: improving my linguistic capacities in a language (german, to be precise). The entire summer holidays I studied again all the grammar rules, did exercises at least two hours a day for more than two months. And I was happier and happier each day of progress!
Two weeks ago we had our literature examination. The days before it I not only studied the book the examination was going to handle, but I also re-studied again german grammar, this time supporting myself with photoreading (yet another book in my NLP library, by Paul R. Scheele) and I was totally self confident the day before the examination.
I wrote the examination.
And yesterday we got our results.
I had scored 72 points out of hundred and was the 5th best of the class.
Now, one will say, that's good! See, you're doing progress!
My new german teacher told me that he was really impressed by my expression capacities.
That's what the typical positive thinker would think...
But now, please, let's be rational!
Last school year I was AT LEAST 2nd best with at least 90% points, and actually I had studied so long during holidays hoping to go excellent...
And what makes me doubt even more on my "progress" (and think that it's rather the opposite...) is the fact that all the people who beat me are youngsters who never even THINK about studying or selfimprovement techniques.
Everything gets worse when I look at the guy who wrote the best examination: he smokes 20-30 cigarettes every day (and I swear, if science discovers that smoking makes intelligence, I will start smoking), he is involved in at least two relationships (girlfriends) a week(!), he generally spends his time going here and there in the city on his bike, he NEVER studies (he only participates during lessons when he wants, rarely) and STILL he is the person with the highest marks in all subjects (and in the same time also the most social, rational and friendly [except when calling me "Idiot", "Neurolinguistical Dumbhead", etc.]).
In the past schoolyears (when I was not interested in social relationships and could have been defined the typical nerd), when I studied a lot (for school) and didn't have much time to dedicate to automatic negative thoughts, internal dialogues, etc. I was always 1 or 2 points more or less than this guy, yet another fact that makes me conclude one mathematical consequence:
Since I've started to do the general improving of my life, the sum of what has improved has not changed, meaning that I've improved a lot socially but the price is high: I am obstacled in reaching Oxford standards.
The statement of "Frank Puclick Rules" regarding my "internal dialogue" made me "listen/observe/feel actively" to what happens in my subconscious while I do anything (nowadays)...
For instance, while I was studying mathematics a few hours ago (since tomorrow we have a math examination, but as you see, I've given up...):
I am stuck at an operation. I open the first page of my exercise book trying to find a solution. I find the solution to continue.
I subconsciously visualize the classmate who had written the solution on the blackboard the day we had dealt with that operation. I think that in that moment he was better than me at such a simple operation. I remember that in that moment I was something else with my head, distracted. Then I see/hear all other people who do maths in my class and my sight focusses on those people who make me feel an idiot.
Then I remember that they are people who always have fun and don't worry about improving. Then I remember that some of them wrote better examinations than me. Then I concentrate on my internal dialogue...
and now comes the discovery of the year: almost always I hear the words spoken by voices of my friends. Of those who laugh at me and talk with me. And when I think properly, the "dialogue" practically let's me hear what they would REALLY tell. It's actually never my own voice, or the voice of people who like me. It's as if there's a "parliament" in which the opponents always win.
The fact is, they win even when I (with "I" I mean all I've learned in my life, my most personal myself who is know writing this text) know that what is being thought in that moment is superficial, something I've already dealt with uncountable times (my friends are tyrans!).
My conclusions are:
a) I have uncontrollable internal dialogues.
b) I am influenced by friends and what they say ("Talents are innate!", "Be happy with yourself!","Don't think only of studying!","Follow your instincts!","Don't believe in occultisms such as photoreading, etc.","Be yourself!", and other similar maximes that are totally belief-based and don't correspond with what I learned) although I wouldn't like to...
c) (a) as a consequence of (b)
d) (b) as a consequence of (a)
[to be honest, the mental associations go on infinitely: sometimes the way a person had told me something reminds me the notes of a song I wouldn't like to think of; that song makes me visualize someone dancing; this particular person had told me this/that/etc. ... all this during the attempt of studying math...]
Whatever!
My ambition is to be a friend towards everyone, that's a reason I actually started learning NLP, etc. and actually I even saw that I have become a friend of everyone... but if I'm so influenceable, so weak in spite of my experiences and knowledge, I prefer being a friend in one direction, meaning: until I get my diploma that will permit me to go to a good university (Oxford standards!), I'd wish to give a brake to all my thoughts (while I'm writing this I subconsciously consider hearing someone saying that's immoral, that I have to be myself and live with my automatic negative thoughts,... sigh).
I respect other's opinions.
But if their opinions (especially the anti-NLP opinions) keep worrying me subconsciously, I know I will NEVER go to a good university...
I must concentrate on my current priority, so it's either forget the idea of becoming too much confident with certain people (Macchiavelli) or find a way to get rid of my superficial thoughts as soon as possible...
the final diploma examination is not too far anymore...
Oh, one more curiosity!
I actually was aware of this since long time.
Every moment of the day songs keep playing in my subconscious as if it were an immense database of Winamp songs. And the songs are clear, as if they were playing right in background!
Good evening everybody! ;)
Harvester
11-12-2004, 10:01 AM
Remember I told you that my "maximum personality" (the best person I can be, in "values" and other characteristics, charisma, etc.) depended on a group of new people I had met in a kind of foreign camp? :)
Well, I was really very happy to meet some of them again a few days ago, as they spent a short holiday in my hometown. In those few days the "automatic negative minded" and the "hyper-charismatic" symbolically merged into one person because people representing my "old", boring, ugly side met with these "new" people.
Initially, these "new" people always laughed with me, saw me as their leader, and expected me to take that role! Anything funny I said was funny for all and that made me really happy.
I was able to INTERACT with them. Be on their same level. Communicate with them as humans.
I felt responsible. I felt the "alpha male status". For I while had even FORGOTTEN that among other people I was a looser...
My thoughts in that particular moment:
"See, Harvester! Irony and fun is a relative thing! It DOES depend on what the first impression about you was! To these people you ARE truly a charismatic person, because that's what they expect you to be!" :cool:
The same day, I also met "old friends". They, as usual, laughed AT me, and I was always negative minded in their presence.
First I thought:
"Ah, who cares! They only know one side of me! I have precious friends who accept me and care for me! And I also care for them! Why should I listen to these people who are just laughing at me?
Just be happy because you have wonderful new friends!"
I was thinking that way for a few days. And those days were probably among the happiest I've ever had here in my hometown. Truly...
But as time passed, I was starting to realize the truth...:
"Hmm... maybe, Harvester, maybe your new friends are people of your level and that's why they laugh with you... Your older friends are more intelligent, they have better skills than you and your friends.
You and your friends are just a mass of totally deceived people.
Open your eyes and accept the fact that you ARE stupid! And also your new friends... that's why they see you as a charismatic person, and you are NOT one for the old ones, who are on a higher level..."
In the same days, there was a merging together of the two "groups" of people.
And I started seeing that they were making friends among themselves, mixing each other.
And the more charismatic people of my "old" friends were able to create the wonderful effect of attracting the "new" friends to their side. Now they were all laughing AT me.
(side-info: Including a girl I liked very much...)
My thoughts:
"See Harvester! That's yet another evidence that your old friends are highly intellectual people and you are just the proof of stupidity itself! You should have NEVER started even thinking that you could reach their level. You had only found people less intelligent than yourself. You had been deceived, you fool! Now you can see with your own eyes how easily your old friends conquer the hearts of those you achieved with lots of time, concentration and great effort!
You shouldn't have even brought all these people together!"
After that, my attitude was again negative, extremely negative, even towards those who maybe still expected a little bit from me.
Some of them (the "new" friends) even asked me whether I am on drugs, when I "switched" to the "old" personality.
And I find it extremely injust since I've never drunk alcohol, smoked, or gone close to drugs in the 18 years of mine... the only "drug" of mine seems to be my negative thoughts... but now I'm starting to think that these "negative" thoughts are REALISTIC thoughts!
Just to give you an overview of what has happened in my life...
1986-1999: "Normal" growth. Emotional ups and downs as in everybody's life.
Among the best averages at school. Slightly uncaring about social life and very few friends (among which the computer).
2000-2003: Period of change, characterized by a drastic, hyperbolic improvement in all fields of life which had nothing to do with friends, love, etc. A satisfying perfectionist mind. Always postive, improvement-oriented (I studied things that had to be studied in much higher grades) and totally CARELESS about social interaction! Best of the class! Motto:"Always get better and don't fall into emotions like all the other teenagers"
2003: Realizing of the "mistake"! Comparing myself with people excellent at school AND in love, friends, society etc. and trying to imitate them, since they were "more comlete". ---> Greater interest in psychology, NLP, etc. Motto:"You must get better in every field of life!"
2004: Total revolution. Lots of friends. Typical person who is greeted by almost everybody on the routine roads in the city. "Wandering" years...
BUT: Expectation to improve efficiency at school totally DECEIVED.
Suddenly typical person who says lots of bullsh*t in classroom (many teachers surprised) in all subjects
and overall stupid ideas, etc.
To the eyes of old friends: friendly-always gentleman-most-helpful-but-big-idiot-ignorant, "He's the most idiotic person I've ever met in my life!"
To the eyes of new friends: God, great seducer, angelic, inspiring, "an idol", "If all people in the world were like you, we'd be perfect...", and this one is really nice:"Surely the most positive minded person!"
To the eyes of new friends who start knowing "old friends": good appearance but a goat inside (no one actually told it explicitly, but that's what one can surely identify)
I tend to believe the more negative feedback...
2005: :confused: